An Exchange with a Peace Lover
Peacelover Writes:

David,

This is a very disturbing ideology: " I hate the haters more than they can hate me." Just think how much in common you have with those you call your enemies. War begets war. Violence begets violence. You can't fight fire with fire, only with water. The only way to combat hate is with love, with understanding. I hope you realize that constant aggression is not going to solve any problems, only create further ones. I know there is a solution that is not hostile, but it takes patience and dedication..

-Peacelover


Dear Peacelover,

My ideology has served the Jewish people fairly well for over 3,000 years. Jews are still here despite thousands of years and millions of people determined to wipe us out. It's a shame you do not think some war is necessary as there is a time for war and a time for peace. It's suicidal to say it's a time for peace when hundreds of millions of others are declaring war against you. I do not promote constant aggression, but rather, hyper-vigilance against the true aggressors.

You don't seem to understand nor appreciate the basic moral and ethical principle and obligation of self-defense. I can only hope and pray no one comes to do you or your loved one's any harm, and I can only guess no one has---or else your perception might be different.

For example, let's say a massive violent rapist came over to your house. My guess is that you would allow that violent rapist do whatever he wanted to you, while you would try to explain to him that raping and beating you is wrong. Then he progresses to your mother and perhaps your young underage sister, while you continue to try to explain to him how wrong it is. Perhaps you would then offer him some milk and cookies in an effort to make him stop the rape and violence. Perhaps there would be a gun right there, but you would refuse to use it (lest you fuel his violence with more violence!)

G-d forbid this example should ever happen, but seriously consider it and how much "love and understanding" would help you in the case of anyone determined to cause you or your family harm and realize there are millions upon millions of people in the world wishing to do that same type of harm to the Jewish people, Israel, the USA, and the West in general.

Offering them milk and cookies will not prevent anything.

It would actually require extreme hyper-vigilance on your part in order for someone like you to overpower a violent rapist many times your size.

There are people determined to commit evil in the world. You are not going to be able to stop a violent rapist through love and understanding. The sooner more people like yourself realize this fact, the sooner we will achieve peace.

David
Shimshie Yeger (New York, NY) wrote
at 5:41am on May 10th, 2008
I hate these peace loving morons! Didn't we learn anything from trying to peace & love Hitler back in '38, or what about peace loving Arafat in '93. IT DOESN'T WORK!!
Adam Hyman (San Diego State) wrote
at 6:08am on May 10th, 2008
Pacificists think that we should do anything to avoid war, because war is the biggest evil.

But WAR IS NOT THE BIGGEST EVIL. There some things worse than war: genocide, tyranny, slavery, oppression. And those are the things that war should be used against.

IT TOOK A WAR to end slavery in America. Was it a tragedy that hundreds of thousands of people died? Absolutely. Should the North have pulled out, to avoid war..... Absolutely Not.
Adam Hyman (San Diego State) wrote
at 6:11am on May 10th, 2008
The only thing I disagree with David about, is when he says, "Please forgive the example...."

That was a very good example, and you've got nothing to apologize for. I think you were just trying to be polite, but remember David - its "peacelovers" whose anti-gun laws have stopped single women from being able to protect themselves against rapists.
David Appletree (Israel) wrote
at 6:22am on May 10th, 2008
you're right. i need to stop apologizing. however, i think it's a very awful thing to bring up to someone and have them think about, which is why I asked her to forgive it. G-d forbid it should happen.
David Appletree (Israel) wrote
at 6:23am on May 10th, 2008
in reflection of that comment, i fixed it up a bit. the reason i apologized is b/c i didn't want it to seem like i was wishing it upon her.
Gadi D (Yeshiva) wrote
at 6:28am on May 10th, 2008
"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me.'" - George Orwell (Partisan Review, 1942)
David Appletree (Israel) wrote
at 6:33am on May 10th, 2008
"Are you for us or for our adversaries?" -Yehoshua 5:13
Gadi D (Yeshiva) wrote
at 6:34am on May 10th, 2008
lol ok yours is better :)
David Appletree (Israel) wrote
at 6:37am on May 10th, 2008
nah---it's the same, just stated differently.
Jonathan Gardner (Washington, DC) wrote
at 8:52am on May 10th, 2008
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."



-John Stuart Mill
Reut Rory Cohen (Israel) wrote
at 11:38am on May 10th, 2008
"We make war that we may live in peace." -Aristotle
Danny Peled (New York, NY) wrote
at 12:22pm on May 10th, 2008
Eh, the don't annoy as much, because at least their intentions are noble, even though delusional. THey are only able to speak in metaphors and cliches, cause they really have nothing empirecal or logical to speak of. I'm more curious to hear about the solution this person speaks of.
Cynthia Bugsey wrote
at 11:51pm on May 10th, 2008
David, you have friends at Multiply who are worried about you and say that you have put your FB account on "private". They say they're worried because they would not know whatever happens to you after you got some threatening hate note from some Christian fanatic. I am gonna try and put their link here:)

http://lillbjorne.multiply.com/video/item/23/Though_He_Slay_Me_Job_1315_-_sung_by_Jack_Marti?replies_read=1
David Appletree (Israel) wrote
at 5:46am on May 11th, 2008
regarding that link:

-Linda Paff is still on FB

-While this person's intentions might have been "good" - I do not need to tolerate any form of New Testament preaching on my account

-I generally do not trust "Messianic Jews" or missionary types

-I was not offended by this woman's remark

-"Messianic Jews" and missionary types, by their very nature, generally offend me

-My main goal is to unite the Jewish people here and to try to do what I can to "educate" about things I find concerning. I do not wish for my account to be used for the miseducation of the Jewish people through any form Xtian teachings

-I realize this is "closed minded" of me, so be it. When I was young I was not very educated and a non-Jewish "friend" of mine brought me to chruch and tried to convert me and I found the whole thing confusing.

-I refuse to make room for that possibility for many of my younger or not so educated Jewish friends who could be targeted by missionary or messianic types for "conversion"
David Appletree (Israel) wrote
at 5:54am on May 11th, 2008
in conclusion, i do respect people's views, but i do not need to allow them to be presented within my facebook account context---where my number one goal is to promote Jewish identity and survival. While I generally enjoy basic support for Israel and the Jewish people that does not mean I have to tolerate any form or any shred of preaching. In fact, depending upon the context, I often view this as nearly as much of a threat as the Islamic terrorists. I do not support a physical, spiritual, or intellectual Holocaust of the Jewish people and will root out any possible seeds therein, before anything has the opportunity to grow. There is enough of this information all over the place. My FB account does not need to be yet another outlet for it.
Shimshie Yeger (New York, NY) wrote
at 11:22am on May 11th, 2008
I wanted to post this but it asked me to sign up and I really was not that interested in signing up. So here is the post.

Amen, Jewish Activist. In the Bible, G-d warns that the Jewish people should neither add nor subtract from His book. Making a "new" testament is trying to add to perfection. It is impossible and I thank David for seeing that and
erasing that entry from his account.
David Appletree (Israel) wrote
at 11:32am on May 11th, 2008
thanks! although i'm not so perfect when it comes to actually observing Mitzvot, I do realize that is what I am SUPPOSED to be doing---just need to learn how...properly...gradually....etc.

If one really studies the effects of assimilation, it is so clear why Jewish Law is so strict... once you deviate from one seemingly minor issue, then it effects things down the line----and it can go from great Torah Scholarship (like my great grandfather, who was a great Jewish leader, a rabbi/Torah/Talmud expert----all the way down to me throughout the generations... to someone who grew up clueless and ashamed of being Jewish...to many years of seeking Truth--- even going so far as to pray with Muslims, chant with Hindus and meditate with Buddists before I realized i had to, in the words of the Beatles, "get back to where I once belonged"---the first step to recovery of what was once lost, for me, was Jewish pride...
David Appletree (Israel) wrote
at 11:35am on May 11th, 2008
it's very hard to feel Jewish pride when you're raised in the type of environment in which i was raised---namely, where most Jewish people were trying to "fit in" and most non-Jews were bible thumping Jesus freaks who told me I was going to burn in hell unless i accepted their lord and savior--- i had people trying to drag me to church...i had school teachers telling me my sister was not my sister b/c she had blue eyes and "no Jews could have that..." and most of the Jewish people around me were merely trying to fit in--- embracing suburban materialism w/ all its excess... there was so little true yiddishkeit where i was raised... and the Jews around me did not make me feel proud---- especially since i wasn't raised getting everything i wanted---- as they were--- i didn't fit in with the jesus freaks and i didn't fit in with the jews who got all that material crap...

and so here i am.
Shimshie Yeger (New York, NY) wrote
at 1:18pm on May 11th, 2008
All you need to do is look at Ysiro (Jethro), Moshe's father in law. He was the high priest of Midyan, but after trying all of the idols, he realized that Judaism was the only True Religion.
David Appletree (Israel) wrote
at 1:22pm on May 11th, 2008
interesting. i should do that---my Bar Mitzvah Torah portion began with "now moses, tending the flock of his father-in-law, Jethro.... "

i really want to get it on youtube... apparently i did a lot for a kid who barely knew any Hebrew---
Shimshie Yeger (New York, NY) wrote
at 1:35pm on May 11th, 2008
I just checked and that is Exodus 3.1. However that is not the begining of the Section. It is mid-section. That section (or Parsha) is from Exodus 1.1 to 6.1, which happens to be one of my favorite verses:
"Hashem said to Moses, 'Now you will see what I shall do to Pharaoh, for through a strong hand will he send them out, and with a strong hand will he drive them from his land' "
It is like the "scenes from the next episode of the Bible" at the end of the Parsha.
David Appletree (Israel) wrote
at 2:17pm on May 11th, 2008
lol....right. i'm just saying the bit about Moses' father in law had to be just before my section.
Cynthia Bugsey wrote
at 11:49am
Actually David, at Multiply a LOT of them (Messianic Jews) offend me too but there are a few non-dogmatic types.

ahoovati wrote on May 17
Me too I am sick and tired of this pro-islamic peace lovers !
bugsey wrote on May 17
Hi Everyone.

My Name is Malchiel Gruenwald (feel free to google me)- I'm a co-admin of various Appletree groups and enterprises.

As Facebook takes an insanely aggressive stance toward what they feel is "spam" - they knowingly continue to provide a platform for terrorists, their sympathizers, nazis, jihadists, and antisemites of every shape and size.

Therefore, Appletree has been disabled. He admits he made a stupid mistake as he generally does not care about facebook apps, but found a really fun one in which he wanted to share.

We shall see if Facebook turns their decision around. Until then, just know that the fight continues and should Appletree continue to stay "disabled" - he will most likely decide to come back (only MUCH stronger) next time.

In the meantime, feel free to add him on Myspace:

http://www.myspace.com/jewishactivist

Or you may email him (though he checks it infrequently):

jewishactivist@yahoo.com

I spoke to him and he's in good spirits---making it to the gym thinking about future plans, the summer, etc. He hopes all of his friends stay by his side for his possible comeback. He doesn't necessarily urge anyone to write Facebook on his behalf (yet) but he won't necessarily stop them either.

Ultimately, he doesn't want this to become an "Appletree" issue. He wants the original goal of all of his 18 groups (with nearly 35,000 members total) to stay the same.

Thanks for your understanding!
-MG
bugsey wrote on May 17, edited on May 17
Hey all who REALLY care -- support David and his groups! Write Facebook! I am sooo UPSET!!!!!
Oh and YES, I created The Infidel Club- No Speciat Treatment for Islam at Facebook so please "some people(islamics?)", don't threaten me.threaten the 400plus members I have if you can:)

I don't mean any wrong but if more Jews were like David Appletree (google him) then Israel would have less problems than it is having today. Get OFF the "religious" horse Jews and go help David!

Okie, David has his account BACK!
ahoovati wrote on May 17
I am going to take a look at his site !
bugsey wrote on May 18
I am going to take a look at his site !
You can also google his name --- David Appletree:)
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